A Deep Dive into Jotform AI Agents with Aytekin Tank

So it's been over 3 months since we launched Jat from AI agents. That's why we thought that maybe we can just you know it's it's a good point to look back and look at what we learned share what we learned about AI agents and how our users are using this product. What kind of things we learned about how to make things better. Hi my name is Dmitri Bonichi and I'm a content creator, agency owner and AI enthusiast. You're listening to the AI agents podcast brought to you by Jot Form and featuring our very own CEO and founder Idkin Tank. This is the show where artificial intelligence meets innovation, productivity, and the tools shaping the future of work. Enjoy the show. Hey there, and welcome back to another episode of the AI Agents Podcast. In this one, it's it's going to be a little bit different.

Uh we're going to interview Idkin. you know, uh, Idkin's been the co-host of the podcast, but we're going to interview him as, uh, we feel like it'd be a good inflection point, um, for just a bit of a reflection for the things that we've been doing with Jot Form AI agents. We talk about a lot of other things on this channel and we plug Jaw form AI agents a lot, but I think this is always going to be an interesting conversation because as we'd like to interview founders, we often don't acknowledge we have our own very esteemed and uh experienced founder on this podcast hosting it. So Idken, how are you doing man? Good. Uh so it's been over three months since we launched Jatform AI agents. M that's why we thought that maybe we can just uh you and look at what we learned

like uh share what we learned about AI agents and how our users are using this product uh what kind of things we learned about how to make things better. Uh so I think this is you know we could probably do this like you know at the three month six months you know one year uh you know uh milestones and just um share what we are learning uh with the AI agents. Yeah I think that's a really good idea. You got to go at different uh points in time I feel like and once you do get to different points I'm big on reflection so I think this is going to be this is going to be awesome. Just to kick things off, my first question is actually regarding, you know, back in the time of the launch. Take us back to 2025, February 25th specifically. Uh

there was a live stream that you had um launching the AI agents. What was the single most important promise that you wanted users to hear about AI agents that day? So I think one of the things that we really cared about was having these multiple channels for our AI agents. Sure. Because um you know once you train your agent, once you have this customer service representative, once you have this AI agent that can actually do things for you on your behalf and talk to your customers, take you know, appointments, um you know, take, you know, fill out forms, you know, do all kinds of things. um that you don't want to just do this in a single place like you want to have it available wherever your customer is right if your customer wants to call a phone number maybe your AI agent should also

be there on the phone if your customer customer if you're international right uh everyone is using WhatsApp outside US right they're going to they're going to actually write to you on the WhatsApp um you know if you want to use messenger if they want to use messenger if they if they want to go to your website. So all these things like um once you create your AI agent that can actually um you know represent you on your and do things on your behalf why don't you have it on all the platforms like uh social media. So uh when we launched uh let me share my screen um sure and um yeah so when we launched um right uh just from AI agents we actually launched with eight channels um and um the you know uh the main one was the chatbot that you can actually

put your on your on your website but there was a phone agent people can call and talk to your agent there was a WhatsApp app. Uh there's a voice agent that they can actually, you know, connect while they are talking to the, you know, uh chatbot on your website or you could just use the voice agent. You could just embed your voice agent somewhere. Um Messenger, uh on Facebook or on Messenger, if people want to talk to you, you could just give them an app. Um we didn't have that at the time, but and the standalone mode is like you can just send a link to your agent. And kiosk is more about like you know if you have like this office space where people should be like just uh you know you can put this kiosk iPad or something and they can just uh

talk to it or just uh you know type to it. Um so that was the the main thing and we found that this was a good strategy. So one of the things we discovered was like most people were actually using this chatbot on their website but all of these channels actually started growing and they have you know you know they are not huge like you know they are you know some of them are like 5% 6%. But there's like we are seeing growth on all channels. So this tells us that this is really uh useful. So where are we uh in the 3 months mark uh we are actually reach we have 10,000 active users uh and uh we have we are we reach to around like 8,000 conversations per day like you know AI agents and our uh their customers uh our users customers

they're having uh on average like 8,000 conversations daily. So that's where we are but we are seeing all these conversations happening all these channels. So because we saw this like the channels are good and people are using all these different channels. So we started investing in like uh you know working on these additional channels. So we just last month we released this the next one the Shopify agent and this is also growing fast and you know basically you can have your chatbot on Shopify like as a like we implemented as a native Shopify app. So it actually it can actually even give you answers about your order status. It can give you like the location of your order or it can answer your question about the products as well. Uh and one of the things we are just launching in in in couple of weeks

is uh the presentation agent. The presentation agent is going to be you could put it on your web page and then people can go and just watch a presentation and then listen to the AI talking about the presentation. But you but you can also ask question to the to the AI about the presentation or you can you can ask the presentation agents to ask specific questions when they reach specific like slides on the presentation. Uh another one we are working on and that seems to be in the beta program we have lots of people using is the Gmail agent and basically it's like you know uh a jot for you know we have like support uh we have multiple types of support like one of them is like this uh support tip ticket system and one of them is like the like chatbot live chat

but other one is like we also have an email address and people actually send emails to these addresses. So we started using this agent as well like uh uh our own Gmail agent and basically what it does is it creates drafts. It basically looks at your previous answers and it learns from those answers and then when someone sends you an email it will create a draft and and basically sometimes it's perfect. You just say say sometimes the the other party the customer asks like a really tough question and the answer is not correct but you can just like just edit the parts and uh make it good and then you can send it. So it's it's actually sped up uh our uh our support team a lot. And another agent we are working on is the zoom agent basically. And zoom agent is not just

zoom but it can also work on like Google's um what was that Google Google uh I don't remember the name of the Google's video service. Um but basically it can um answer uh you it can basically like you can connect to the uh zoom agent and you can ask questions or it can even show you presentations uh over zoom. So, so we have all these agents and more agents are coming and um that that was the like that was one of my main points when when I made that speech and uh you can find the speech on Jatform's channel uh YouTube channel but uh one of the things is like you know having multiple uh channels allows our uh users to be able to provide uh service wherever wherever their customers are and that seems to be uh you know uh turned out to be

right approach to follow. Awesome. So that that that really uh gives us some good context there. I feel like um the Shopify agent is one of the ones that I am the most excited about cuz e-commerce I think immediately can benefit very much so from what we're doing at Jot Formi agents. So kudos to us for putting that together. Um, now I actually just wanted to ask next, what painoint inside of Jot Form actually convinced you that forms and workflows deserve their own AI teammate rather than just another feature toggle, right? Cuz this is like this is a whole launch. This was a whole thing when we talked about this months ago. your team originally reached out to me in I want to say June of like last year uh about this topic and I think maybe the original launch was earlier way earlier than

February and you just kept making sure it was right. So this this clearly went from like a uh we could do something with AI to okay we're going to make a product. Yeah. Um so the original idea was um like originally one of our ideas was um what if we could actually use AI in different parts of Jatform. Um and we still we we you know we are still working on that uh idea and we are going to be you know releasing uh all kinds of solutions for that. But um let me go back to the you know the the original story right uh how we started this. Um so basically in the early days uh we had we had this hack hackathon aton we have these hack these hackathon called hackw weeks and and I think it was about two years ago we did

this hack week and um and usually during the hack weeks like we either work you know use a technology to create prototypes. So usually like 20 plus uh product teams join these hackathons and they each team is trying to create like you know new ideas, new prototypes and there's a lot of ideas and uh but one of you a couple of teams actually came up with this idea of like filling out forms uh like using AI as opposed to like you know as opposed to like typing uh in your form. what if you could just like talk to your form it could be over phone or it could be on a website. So that was the original idea and that's how we started. Uh and once we actually did that product and once we released that product to a beta users we we had a

surprise u we were surprised by how people used it because most people weren't using using the product as we envisioned it. Like we were thinking they would use this product uh to you know get people to fill out forms but what they were doing was they were actually using that this as a customer service product. Uh so they were getting all these answers uh from customers and uh like they were answering customer questions on this chatbot like 90% was actually doing this and we said okay hey we tried to make a different product uh but it looks like people actually discovered something else in this product and they are using it in a different way than we thought. Uh let's pivot. Um I mean we still have forms today and a lot of people actually use it for forms. Definitely that's one of the big

use cases but still like the biggest use case biggest customer usage is about customer service uh providing answers or lead generation just uh answering uh questions and once we saw that we pivoted to customer service and then we we developed more features and made a more complete product. Um and uh so I mean uh making all these uh you know really you know having AI automation in our other products like you know forms uh workflows apps these are actually things that we are working on and um you know we will have some stuff uh before the end of the year uh you know and usually like we one of the uh one of the things we do is like we don't actually announce products beforehand like we will we'd like to surprise people our customers and um and just we have some good stuff with

AI coming up uh in the coming months. Okay. Well, I I can see definitely how customer service is is one of the main things here, and that's what I was probably alluding to with my comment on Shopify. And when you're saying that people are using it for forms, I find it pretty interesting that something that is in my opinion, you had a good product before, like it's not like Jot Form was lacking there. The experience is just definitely really really about making it a more conversational approach to getting these questions answered. Right. And what I really want to know is could you possibly share uh a first example or an example that came from the first week that was live that solved a problem so elegantly that it made your team just like really ecstatic. Maybe even do a in in-person high five, virtual high

five. Yeah. Yeah. Um Yeah. Yeah. I have a couple of uh examples. I think u one customer that really impressed us like actually our product actually impressed us with once customer was um this customer was actually running a festival uh a huge festival and basically and people had all kinds of questions like uh you know uh about the concerts uh about the pricing about you know where to park you know how to rent uh a tent like all kinds of pro problems and questions and they had a website and they have all the information but people don't want to read those information. people prefer to go to the chatbot and ask their questions. And and the great thing about this was uh uh like if you think about if you are an organizer, if you're organizing events, you're probably not a huge company and but

the thing is like you're you probably don't need a lot of customer service people in the regular days, but maybe you know a few you know weeks a year uh that you will have this huge spark spike of uh customer service need and like how do you you know hire so many people and train them right but with AI uh you can just like it's just skills so easily it's just automation right there's no there's no limit to scale um and then you can suddenly you know answer hundreds of questions quickly and provide a good service so when we saw this customer really getting so much value from the product and this was right around the time we launched it and that was just like you know big h you know high five moment I think another big high five moment was like u our

first enterprise uh jat from AI agent customer was like this um air you know airline company like uh you know uh since we don't have permissions like I don't actually like usually we don't mention uh customer names unless we have uh like their uh permissions. So, but this is like a big big airline company and they are uh they are basically you know they they they bought just from enterprise just for just from AI agents. So they can actually you know do all the things that uh you know uh you can do on a uh on an you know you know airway uh uh you know airplane company uh travel company uh website and um and you know doing things like you know um arranging your flights doing check in check-ins and like just asking questions all kinds of things that u they seem to

be doing well and they they just send in so many requests to us and we are you know fixing them very quickly uh and hopefully you know they're going to go live very soon and um I think that that was another high five moment because you know uh usually like jot form is like this our products are usually for these like uh small businesses right like all these small small businesses small education healthcare nonprofit right and we enjoy serving them but you know sometimes big companies also you know use our enterprise product That's that's also very exciting to have brand names uh using our products. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'd say anytime that that happens, it's a it's a good one. Like the the feeling that you probably have to have when any company that's like large and is uh somebody who you know is big

in in the space is is pretty cool. No matter how big you get, somebody else using your tool that's that's big is pretty cool. Um, so the agent builder is something I wanted to do a little bit of a a double tap on as well. The agent builder is a really cool uh feature inside of the product. Obviously, you have a lot of experience with uh building out forms and and that was a really intuitive experience before AI agents came out of Jaw Form. My question is the agent builder lets people start from scratch and you can adapt an existing form. You can adapt an existing form or use a template. Which path does it seem like most people are using out of those options? I think that's a great question um because that's a question we have been asking a lot as well and

uh measuring and AB testing a lot in the recent months and what we discovered was the best one is like if we ask people to enter prompt um if we ask them to just enter whatever they want to do like you know I'm a barber shop I need to take appointments and you know and uh connect to my Google calendar. Like if they describe what they need to do with a prompt, then we can actually give them the agent. Like we can just create the agent for them and be ready to go go and and all the other options didn't work that well like starting from scratch means right you just start with like you have to go everywhere like on the agent builder like uh and you have to customize everything to your needs, right? It's just too much work. Um and we are

actually like we have numbers behind this like this uh this conclusion and you know once when we give people the prompt people get the results and we activate more users. So templates they don't also work well because just we don't have templates for everything and all like just searching and browsing finding the template you need is is a lot of work right you can just write what you want. It's just much easier and uh like we have clone yourself that's also a lot of work but it's fun so we always want to keep that but it's fun it's but it's a lot of work and I don't know what what else did we have I think that was all we had right now form right starting from form is actually fast and works really well but most people are not turning their forms to AI

agents so it only works in some cases uh existing Jatform users usually use that uh but uh mainly what we are seeing is that uh you know native users people using J from AI agents you know if they if they just give their prompt if we give them a prompt box and ask them what they want and we are able to give what they want and then uh just they they can just start using their product right away. So that's the best one. Um, it turned out and there's a lot of AB testing. So I'm I'm glad like you had that great question. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for me, I like the AI agent builder the most. And also templates. Templates for me are just like the easy peasy go-to. Um, with a lot of this type of products, I think that you guys have

a I I mean, it was like the I remember when you showed me the list of templates you guys had. I was like who how did you you know it's excessive it's thousands um not that you know you can ever have too many templates now regarding uh some of the technical side of things this is a little bit more under the hood which technical decisions like AI uh chat model for example uh retrieval strategy guard rails ended up defining the personality and reliability of Jotform AI agents yeah that's another great question So, so when when we launched Jatform AI agent uh AI agents, one thing we did was uh we started actually running our own customer service using you know Jatform AI agents. So right out of the gate uh we were getting 2,000 conversations per day from our own customers. But uh we had

a shock because uh what we did was like we actually um you know switched like 15 people from our customers uh service uh department to to do like the review of these conversations and once they've reviewed those conversations they we discovered that it's very low like the the resolution rate was very low it was like 25%. Luckily, like if you cannot get an answer from AI, you know, we can still talk to our human customer support, but 25% was terrible like just um out of the gate. Um so that was like that was a kind of like um that kind of defined what we worked on the next three months because like the majority of the team actually started uh working on this these problems. Um so what we did was uh we clustered you know you know we are able to answer 25% but

the 75% is not good. So we actually like did cluster analysis you we use AI again to that 75% to find like the common problems that our AI agent is not able to answer and and then we we gave these clusters to different teams different product teams uh different AI teams and then we said okay you own this you know get it working solve this um so one of the things was actually technically that affected uh the whole of Jatform AI agents was that the quality of the answers coming from our rack system which means like our knowledge base was not good because once our knowledge base uh was bigger the problem was like because all this information is like everywhere in the rag database uh that it would bring all kinds of answers and it would actually give the wrong answers. So uh one

of the things that we did was that we actually changed the the embedding model for our rag and that's uh like we moved to like Gina uh for our embedding model and that actually made a big difference and we we changed something with our vector database as well. So uh I'm not really too much like uh you know not you know I didn't like closely um follow what what was happening there with our technical team what was doing but basically that that was one of the biggest uh improvements. Uh so that made like a 10% difference and that not just for us but also for our customers as well. So basically our uh you know the utilization of our knowledge base just got better because we were using our own product and because we were finding out why it wasn't working and um the other

thing that our teams actually worked on was uh like you know people were asking questions and we we were actually comparing the answers of AI to our human support and our human support actually had tools which AI didn't have. So a human support would actually go and check out the account of the user. They would um they could like look at the email logs and find out if the you know you know if someone is saying like my submission is missing or my email I didn't receive my email right the human support could could use tools to like debug that problem. they we created tools for them but those tools weren't available to AI. So one of the things they did was they actually made sure that those tools are available or a API and we actually improved our API feature of the J from

AI agents uh so that we can actually utilize those APIs use tools our AI agent can actually use those tools uh in a better way. Uh so that also like those guy like you know each team they were they would work on like you know three weeks and they would make a 5% difference. So and over time over the three months we started with 25% and we reached to 75%. Now instead of one out of four now we are three out of the four uh conversations with our customers are resolved and we still have that like 25% and um and in those cases like we are transferring the user to human support uh and just you know um at this point like it's it's very hard to find more clusters because like all these questions are all these usually like minor issues So my guess

is we will probably reach like 80% but I doubt that we will be able to go over that much further. But it's okay. The AI doesn't have to do everything. The the you know the AI can handle most of those repetitive questions, easy questions so that the uh human support can actually really work on more t you know difficult questions. And what we saw was uh our human support uh the the loads for them actually decreased and our average response time on the human support actually uh lowered because we could get back to customers much quickly. Uh so our customer support in general got so much better because we have AI but you know our full human support team is still working. they are still contributing you know uh like you know many of the uh needs they mention like you know you know laying

off people or things like that I don't want to do that I you know I think it's just better to let AI handle the easy stuff but provide a much better service to to our customers this means like we can keep more people like we can keep uh you know lower our churn rate uh increase you know our you know onboard users better. Um, so this is a great way to like and also it's it's really terrible for a support person to constant answer those easy questions you know all the time. It's just very boring and that's just you know I mentioned to you like why I started Jot Form because on my previous company uh I work for this media company in New York and we had these editors uh you know we we owned like 100 websites and every day they would come

to me to ask me to build a form and I got tired of building similar forms and it was so boring that's why I built chat form in a similar way our support team is now only answering ing like tough questions and uh all those easy stuff are instantly handled by our AI support and just we are providing a better service to our customers. Yeah. I mean when you started when you started as a SAS company I don't want to say so long ago. Not trying to call you call you old or anything. Um a little while ago I mean the customer support experience you're having got to be incredibly better um than it was. And you know, I think it was a really good call that you said there where you said AI is not going to do everything, right? It it is going

to do a lot of things. And we mentioned this very early in the podcast history. We said, you know, it's crazy like people are assuming it's going to be perfect, but tell me the last time a customer support person's been perfect. Um, that's kind that's why they have those like rating scores and stuff for customer support. So, very good call out there. Um, and uh, obviously as time goes on and the models improve, I imagine you're just going to see natural improvements anyways. Oh, definitely. That's also one of the things we see like as the NIM models come out, right? Uh, right. you know the Gemini name models and we are using multiple models by the way Gemini chip claw Gemini all these different LMS um you know the models at the back end and we are actually compare them to each other and then

if if one of the models actually performed better for example Gemini for a while when they released like 2.0 0 2.5 I don't remember which one they were actually better and then open AAI released 4.1 and actually you know they were in the very similar uh level so we we are using them both right now um so it's just um that also that's also making a small difference in the quality of our answers as well like that might have probably provided a few points as well in this journey from 25% to 75% sense. Yeah. So, what I'd say is I'm going to be enamored with these reasoning models are going to get cheaper and cheaper. You know, like for example, you're using 4.1, which to my knowledge is six times cheaper than 03. Mhm. Right. But I think it was 50 times cheaper than 03

before they dropped 03 Pro. Like they dropped their prices by 80% or something like that. So I'm very curious to see are we going to reach reasoning models having the same cost as like 40 and 4.1, you know, were a little while ago. And when that happens, I think all bets are off regarding the capabilities of a lot of these tools. Cuz you know, sure, it might miss something here and there because it doesn't have as large of a context window or because it's not a good reasoning model. But soon, I mean, I'd imagine in like six, seven months, maybe a year latest, like these reasoning models are going to be just as cheap as like the output models are right now. I right or maybe maybe that's a bit of an early prediction. I don't know. Yeah, it's hard to guess, but in our

case, like we we are not really worried about the cost. Uh sure we are worried about the quality more than fair. We okay to eat that uh eat that difference. Gemini is really cheap for us because we have been a Google cloud customer for a very long time. We are spending huge amounts of money on Google cloud uh uh at JForm because like we have you know 35 million users and um so and uh because of that uh like Gemini is much cheaper but uh what we look at is like um do we actually like what's the best quality if open AAI has a higher quality we'll go with open AAI um just um at this It's more important for us to have this like, you know, be a leadership position in this new growing market than to be, you know, really worry about the

cost uh too much because it's just like every customer we keep is a customer that helps us grow this product and so it's really important for us to uh look at the quality. Yeah, absolutely. Um, so moving forward with my line of questioning, I like you're getting interrogated. The interesting thing here is, you know, we're 3 months in. What usage pattern or metric has surprised you the most? Number of agents created, maybe conversations handled or something else entirely that I didn't think of. So, one of the things that really uh surprised me was like one of the channels and I in the beginning I talked about like the channels really had a big usage and that was the website um the chatbot but uh on on websites they don't just use chatbots uh they will sometimes embed the AI agents on the page some people

actually just replace their homepage with chat from AI agent like they just put the chat bus and when you go to your their website you just type you just write to the AI agent talk to the AI agent I've seen that as well but uh so what we are seeing is 70% of the usage is coming from websites so as opposed to like all these different things like you know messenger WhatsApp you know the um um phone and all these different things are much smaller And um I I think it was around we are around like 300,000 uh daily uh number of number of times our AI agents are shown on the websites like we are getting like 300,000 and uh we have like 8,000 uh conversations daily from yeah and most of those conversations are actually coming from websites. Uh so it's like biggest

biggest surprise was actually to see that people actually use this as a product on their website. Yeah. And um that's actually like uh maybe I'm just going to introduce this new product uh to you here right now. like we didn't announce this but but we actually because we saw that people are using this as a website chatbot and AI agent has like so many features we decided to actually uh build a new brand that actually has uh it's and you don't know about this as well like your first time I don't know anything about yeah I'm like what are you talking about I'm going to actually share my screen uh so this new new brand is all about like just very simple like you don't have all all the AI and stuff, all the features. Uh you have a website, you want to put the

chatbot, AI chatbot on your website. Uh all you have to do is you enter your URLs and you enter your email address. That's it. The AI agents learns from your uh URL and then sends the conversations to you by email. And there's nothing else in this product. And I'm going to share it. Uh let me I didn't actually plan for this by the way. No, I know it didn't seem like it. So, this is a new product called Noob. And, uh, it's noob.com. Um, and basically it's a chatbot for your website. And the example is here, right? We can just test it here. What is Noob? Right. Noob is a platform that creates a custom chatbot for your website by learning from your site content automatically. Just enter your URL, add one line of code and this your chatbot is ready to help visitors instantly.

So basically I enter my website here let's say jotform.com and then I say add noob to my website and uh basically noob is like crawling my website learning from it and then I register my email address. I enter my email address here and basically uh as soon as I verify my email address, I get the code for it and that's it. I'm ready to put it on my website and use it and I can actually uh see here. Um right. So basically, uh we can see it here. N um AI on the website. So yeah, this is the um this is the new product and the reason we did this was uh I mean Jatform AI agent has has great growth but it could also be confusing for people who just need a chatbot for their website. They don't need to learn what is AI

agent. They don't need to learn like you know they don't need to customize stuff. Uh like they don't need to like just all the agents builder stuff. uh maybe they don't need that and if you just need a chatbot uh this is the product. So we kind of silently released this and just introduced to uh users by using ads only. Uh so we haven't launched this product yet. We'll we'll probably launch it uh you know probably on product account and other places in the coming months but for now it's just like we are just going to improve it you know uh with the user feedback. Yeah. Well, yeah, I was kind of surprised. And is it pronounced like n like nope? Like sort of like a Yeah, like the like nope. Uh, let me reshare the brand. Nope. Um, basically it's written n uh like

I know that it it might have like it sounds like nope. Nope. Nope. Yeah. Means no. Or noob like like a beginner, right? Ohra for both. I feel like it's these are not bad. Like the first time I heard Google, I hated it. Like I said, what kind of product would be named? It's Google. No, honestly. Yeah. Like Google sounds like it was one of the dumbest sounding terms I heard when I was growing up. Like when I was growing up, the term Google to me meant the it was like this joke that we had and American kids thought it was like a large um it was like a large number. Like a Google was like a number. So yeah. And you know what we used before Google? Yeah. Yahoo. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, shout out to them for uh failing absolutely on that

one. Yeah. All right. You know which which register I used when when I registered for Jot Form when I first uh started Jatform? GoDaddy. GoDaddy. Right. Well, I feel like all these like, you know, I think all these domains actually easy to remember because they're you know, you know, N is kind of easy to remember. That's why I love this. I love this uh brand and um we'll see what's going to happen. Uh it's a nice little experiment for us to see how much it grows and we'll always have this like upgrade path like if you are a noob user if you need all the advanced AI agent stuff tools and whatever you can upgrade to AI agents. So we are going to have that upgrade pad as well. Uh so but you when you're starting out maybe you will start with new. Sure. Yeah,

absolutely. That's a good idea. So, I guess now that I have that out of the way, I was not expecting that wasn't on my scorecard for um you know, us dropping a new product on the podcast. Uh but the next question I had is more in line with trust and safety. My question for you is where do AI agents sit today inside the wider Jot Form stack? Forms, tables, approvals, and Oh, I'm sorry. I just uh I totally skipped questions. How do you keep agents creative and helpful while avoiding AI gotchas like hallucinations especially where they're you know when they're pulling from like sensitive form data? That's a big concern. Yeah. Um so I always um I always think AI like a dragon on Game of Thrones. Um and AI is like just like a dragon because it you can burn yourself very easily. And

um the dragons on Game of Thrones they have the kalesy and uh and and only she can actually manage them. Only she can like really use them. But what when she uses them she can win the wars, right? they are so air is so powerful but it's also very easy to burn yourself. So what do you do about this? Uh I think you know the Kissi uh example is a good one because she's actually like as soon as they grow uh as soon as they they are born right they they see Kalesi and they start um you know she trains them and she spends so much time training them spending time with them right all those things and that pays off. So if you think that you can just use AI right out of the gate without taking time to training, without taking time to

testing, it's very it's not easy. Um that's why with the AI agents just from AI agents, the agent builder uh like we have something we we have all these knowledge um management features like you can add all kinds of knowledge. You can add your URL so it can actually crawl your website. We have this teach your agent uh section page where you actually you start talking to your agent like um let's say you are going to hire a customer service representative for your company. Would you just hire that person and just dump these documents in front of them and just leave or would you actually spend time with them? Would you actually train them, get to know them and uh you know let them actually watch you serve customers, you know, role play with them. You know, unless you do all those kind of things,

uh you'll probably not be able to get the best of them. Um and the same thing applies to AI. Um AI can be dangerous um if you don't take the time to actually really uh make it work for you and train it and just you know play with all the levels levers right um and it's like you know we have uh with the chat from AI agents right we have the team that's working on that like just uh we spend a lot of time like uh reviewing conversations and finding all these problems and fixing all these problems and just it just pays off. Uh you don't get the quality unless you you invest in it and you don't also get the quality without the quantity because you have to review what AI is doing to be able to really say okay you know we are

at this percentage we have to improve things. Uh so and one one of the great things about Jot Form is like we always have this idea like we always provide our products as free and free means quantity and quantity means quality because uh when you provide something for free people love free like just and and when we provide a free product we don't just you know it's not a trial it's it's not a like free if you give give your credit card or it's not a free and like you have nothing to use like whatever you want when you try to do something, you have to upgrade kind of free. It's all free. We have all the features, right? You can just use it. And this means like we have a lot of active users who are able to use the product without worrying about

like really investing their hard earned cash uh with the product. And uh because of that quantity, now we have 10,000 active users and we are we are seeing 8,000 conversations daily. we are able to actually improve the quality and uh and the quality brings more people as well like when people try they see the product is good and then more people uh we are able to onboard more people so yeah I think it's it's just a journey uh it's just just like security right uh security is very similar uh if you are in you know security business you know that it's it's a journey it's not just something you can do one day and then you have a secure website or content uh you have to like invest on it over a long time uh to make sure you you you are secure and keep

secure over the long time. Yeah. No, you're absolutely right. It's very difficult to um do anything good immediately or well not good but great and perfect immediately. So the iterations here are going to happen. And no, I appreciate you being transparent about that cuz it it it is one of those concerns people have. And as long as as it is a concern for for us here at Jot Form, I think people are going to be satisfied with that answer pretty much. So we're getting up to about 45ish minutes in. So I'm going to fit in a lot about like two more questions. So I think it's fine. Like we can go over uh not I don't have anything else. Yeah. Gotcha. So next what we have is ecosystem fit. This is the question I attempted to ask a couple minutes ago and stuttered and said

the wrong one. Where do AI agents sit today inside the wider Jot Form stack? Whether it be forms, tables, approvals, and what's the next integration that will make them feel truly everywhere. Um so at chat for we are actually in the business of automation of communication. Uh so we are automating communication and what does that mean? Um just let me give you an example. Let's say you're a school administrator. You deal with uh students, teachers, parents, you know, employees, like vendors, everyone else, board, whatever, right? Just like you deal with so many people. And how do you deal deal with so many people? Like if you are if you are doing everything manually like one by one, one to one, it's just like so much work. Every student registering, right? if they if you're actually like talking to them uh you know it's just like

so much work right registrations applications like there's so many things going on how do you do that you use forms forms automate communication right sure and just regular forms don't just like if you're just using a Google form you're not going to get much benefits but if you are using a you know product like jot form you get like so many benefits like you validate your data You put these condition logic, you integrate your data with other services. You you are able to, you know, send your data to other services, uh, other products. You're able to like, you know, create workflows, approvals, um, e signatures, like appointments, like just, you know, so many things. And that's why people use uh JF form because they are able to automate communications and not just like the form filling but also all the steps after that form filling

because we invested in finding out like what people do after they fill out the form and what the businesses need and we we spent almost two decades like automating the rest of the journey. Um so uh like if you look at our products they're all about automating the communications right uh like just e signatures like instead of paper manual sending to each other you just do it online it's very easy quick just from apps like you can turn your forms into an mobile app and give it to your customers and they can just use e easily access your uh forms um right we have like PDF editor you can turn your data you receive on the forms into durable uh documents that you save uh without like you know losing anything and so we have like all these uh additional products and just from AI

just are very similar it also automates the communication and what kind of communication it's the that conversation that you have with your with your customers or students or you know uh patients uh basically you are able to uh give them answers uh or like you know use the tools like appointments or other tools to be able to help them whatever they need to do make sales uh collect leads. So basically it's a AI is basically automation right uh and uh that's why AI agents are also uh automating the communication and that's why among jatform users as soon as we release Jatform AI agents we have seen a lot of people using this product and uh because our users are usually like they're small businesses who are serving lots of clients lots of customers or their education serving lots of students you know they are like

you know healthc care serving lots of patients and just nonprofit like you know uh they are they're dealing with people right so all these people they actually like they can really use that help that help the AI can actually help them be available 24/7 answer questions and use tools uh give the tools people need to be able to do things and um and that's why I think this This is a great opportunity to to be able to provide all these uh you know functionality for our users. Yeah. No, absolutely. I think that makes sense. It's um it's an interesting uh area we're trying to uh get into. I mean the ecosystem that you've already built with forms was was so robust and and then there's so many different ways you can go with like integrating the agents into other tools and products um with all

the integrations we have. So it's pretty incredible. So, speaking of incredible and all the different things you can do with Joff AI agents, uh, with heavyweights like Zenesk out there and intercom kind of touting AI sidekicks now as they move from kind of that chatbot realm to sort of like AI agent sidekicks, what's the most unique mo that keeps customers choosing Jot Forum's approach? I think it's our mentality. Our biggest mo is our mentality, which is we are about we are for the small guys. the small guys, you know, uh we have the fully functional free version up to 100 conversations per month. It's free. There's no gimmick. There's no uh trial. Uh like you like if you're receiving less than 100 conversation, it's all free for you, right? And uh think about all the companies you mentioned that intercom $1 per conversation. $1 per

conversation. Like if you have 100 conversations per month, you pay $100 per month in addition to their subscription fee. Zandesk $2 per conversations conversation, right? Uh hopefully I'm not incorrectly remembering them. And Salesforce was also similar. Uh sorry if I'm, you know, misrepresenting. So check check their website. just don't uh like I don't want to misrepresent our competitors getting into travel or anything but uh that's what I remember about their pricing. uh basically uh I think our biggest mode is like uh our mentality allow uh free users to have a fully functional great product and you know build that relationship with with them and because once we build that relation if they if they never need have a need for a higher usage that's fine they are not really costing us too much but um as we build the relationship like we have so many

products they're going to start using more and more products and we are definitely going to and they're going to more than happy to pay pay us because we are providing so much value to them. So that's the mentality we have as opposed to like you know we have been trying to review all these products right I cannot review them because I cannot even sign up for them like there's this book uh yeah button like there are products that are selling AI AI stuff AI automation but you have to talk to human to buy them well AI sales and AI saleserson but you cannot talk to AI sales person to buy them uh so I think That's that's our moth. Uh and uh that's and I really believe that qual quantity brings quality and um that's and the quality comes from having a free version, having

a great free product. I absolutely agree with you. Like there's so many different products out there. The when we did that sales episode, it's actually I think it might be our one of our more popular episodes. We were like laughing our our butts off because we're like, "Yeah, wait a second. Wait a second. You don't think it would be a good idea from a from a sales pitch standpoint to convince me this would be a good tool by just having it try to sell me? Because if it sold you on it, it could sell other people on your stuff. I was like, that's the most easiest marketing opportunity I've ever seen and they just like didn't do it. So, um it's so funny. Everyone always wants a person on a sales call and I get it. But hey, if you're trying to sell a sales

AI agent, maybe have it sell. Um, and interesting about the the intercom part with like the conversation cost. It's crazy how expensive some of those at and I really appreciate where we're at in the price point uh standpoint. So, um, you know, by this coming Feb, next February, right, let's look at it from like 9 months out, which should be a anniversary. what bold metric agents deployed, tickets deflected, revenue, whatever it is, will tell you that AI agents at Jaw Form are a breakout success and Mhm. on top of that, what hurdles kind of keep you up at night up at night in order to reach that goal? Um, so we are at this point uh around 10,000 active users and 8,000 daily conversations. Um so at the year mark where we would what would be a success? I think it would be like 100,000

active users, 100,000 um daily conversations would be a success. Um so we are going to keep working hard for that. But I I see I I don't usually have uh I really don't believe in goals. I actually believe in like going towards the right going taking the right path and going towards the right direction and as long as you are in the right direction you don't need those like big number goals or anything like that and uh I prefer like just make sure that we are always advancing make sure that we have this graph that is up up to to up and right always going up and always going you know as you as the time goes on and Um so and that's the goal and as long as we improve our product as long as we you know make it better and um keep

working on it I think uh we are going to continue to see this growth. Uh but yeah 100 is like uh probably something that we would be really happy to see. Yeah. And what necessarily is like keeping you up at night that could hold you back from like achieving that goal? Keeping me at uh at night? That's probably the Yeah. tough toughest question. Uh what keeps me at night? Uh that's a great question. Um like when you're when you're doing this, what stresses you out most about it? I think I think one of the things that we always have to worry about if you're building an AI product is if um you know uh the model companies like OpenAI cloud or J you know Google Google's um Google's um Gemini uh what if they built your own product right that's like the biggest uh danger

but I feel like this this market is still too small for them um they are more focused on the consumer and they're focused on all these huge goals like AGI super like all these stuff uh but you know there's always a possibility that you know OpenAI might just do their own you know similar product and then that would actually make it very hard for us to compete with them but my guess is that they're probably not going to be able to invest in that like right so when I was when I was grow when I was like a really small company uh still growing Jot form uh Google actually released Google forms and that was like oh my god what am I going to do like just Google just cloned my product what do I do I put it in Google Drive like millions of

people use Google Driveund 100 million people use Google Drive right um so but but the thing is Like Google forms is not a big thing for Google. It's just a minor feature that's probably has like a small team much smaller like just form has 700 employees. Google forms I don't know maybe it has a small team behind it and uh and they are not really building any features. They're just making sure uh they have this you know e small easy you know it's actually not bad. Uh but it's features but it's still good. uh it's very useful. Um so uh I would guess so I wouldn't worry too much about that but always if you are building AI products like you know and if your AI product is just an improvement over what uh the LMS have like you're always in like LM can just

add that feature and then suddenly it's just it's much harder for you to compete and in our case like we are more in B2B uh businesses use our product and uh LMs are more focused on consumer. So um I don't I'm I'm not really losing any sleep but uh just you know try to find a good answer for you. No that's fair. No I that was that that brought it to an interesting place. I mean uh with not only these types of products that you're you know the type of product you're building but any product like man it's it's so stressful in my opinion to to try to build something that is useful to the consumer and truthfully I do think you are hitting on something that a lot of companies should realize. So even though it is concerning, right, that the AI is essentially

taking um our what's the word I'm looking for? Even though the AI is essentially taking it, it is it's selling the water in my opinion like the in this analogy, right? So you have they're selling Yeah, exactly. And and in the analogy I'd make, they're selling the water. And maybe your concern is like, oh, they're selling they're going to then start selling the method of distribution for said water. But you know what? Like in any industry, you go deeper and deeper and deeper in order to sell correctly. Like you have so many routes to approach with this. You have the what's the word I'm looking for? You have the ability to go specific on a niche. You have the ability to go B2B where they're B to C. And as you pointed out with Google Forms, a lot of people are going to be concerned

about OpenAI or Google making their own versions. And I'd like to hedge because as as somebody who's ran a successful product in a space where Google's had it for a long time, like truth be told, a lot of them are just making lead magnets, which is like the term that a lot of people use in the industry. It's like they're just kind of like making little features here and there that'll get people to try out their main thing, which is what you were saying, which is Google Drive, right? That's what they're selling. They're selling storage and it happens so that you can have a convenient option for this inside of Google Drive. However, they build it, they build a good product, then they don't touch it forever. like Microsoft for example is had um it's had the Microsoft to-do products as you I'm probably sure

forever they make some minor updates they trot it out every so six seven eight months it's not their core focus they're selling you Microsoft teams and the one drive ecosystem and then they try to add these little components here but just by having a better product like Jotform's focused forums and it's focused on good AI agents. I think even if OpenAI comes out with an AI agent, I don't even think it's going to be it's going to be something that gets people to use other things they're really trying to sell. So, um anyway, that's my whole that's my two cents on that. I think you're I think that we had another competitor in forms. Actually, Adobe was our competitor. Adobe actually had a form central. That was a long Oh, shoot. I didn't know this. And uh and and when they they closed it down

because it was just a minor feature for them because it wasn't worth worth uh the attention to them uh for them like just and I always believe that if you're a company and if you're like you know uh main your main business is uh that product uh that you're more likely to like be a long-term player. And when Form Center closed down, we actually that was one of our top co competitors and when they shut down like just we got so many customers from them and that was a big growth uh bump for us. Um and so it's it's you know I don't think it's a good idea to worry too much about the competition. uh just you just do your best and you keep be permanent and keep working on keep improving and u things work out well uh at that. Yeah. Yeah. Totally.

So last question is kind of a bit of a future thinking you know since we got our caps on of uh the future we've we've kind of covered everything on the product itself. Fast forward five years. Do you see classic forms as the primary interface or conversational agents quietly going to handle most data capture just through natural conversation in the background? I feel like forms will still exist, but I don't know if if we will continue filling out those forms or if the AI AI agents are going to be filling out those forms. So uh I mean this is a this is a interesting questions and I also want to you know uh find out like what you think about this but in general like software is changing right uh software is becoming AI AI agents it's going to be different the UI maybe instead

of using a UI maybe instead of using these like you know text boxes buttons maybe the UI is the user interface uh it's a commerce session. Uh but I feel like forms they kind of structure the data and that's why I think they're going to be around for a long time but in many cases maybe you're not going to fill out fill fill them out. Uh maybe AI is going to help help you fill them out. Um so I mean today there are still people who use paper forms that still people you know that's a good point sign documents on paper right so some things you know they they you know some part of the society you know are very quick to use the nuh functionality new technologies but there's a uh there's also this big part of the society uh which resists the change

like they want to use the old tools because they you know the old tools just work. Why why you know mess with it if something works and we we saw that during the pandemic uh we solved a huge growth bump and the reason was like people were resisting uh going digital. they were resisting like going from paper forms to online forms and then suddenly they had to work from home and those paper forms were not available anymore like you know they didn't have their printers at home neither right so they started like switching to online forms and that's what that's why we saw a huge bump uh so I think it's a transformation but it's just like transformations don't happen instantly it just takes a very very long time. No, they don't have happen overnight. I think I think you're very true on this. I

think you and I and those in the know on AI are kind of in a bit of a bubble in regards to adoption. Um, the more people we interview for the podcast, which is uh doing great. By the way, if you want to be on the podcast and are a founder of an AI product, make sure to check us out at uh email us at our places. But anyways, uh, in all seriousness, there has been a big opening of my eyes recently to I nerd out about this stuff. You know what that means? Most people don't use this stuff and most people are not in the know about it. And I really think future future is when we're going to have the amazing you log into a website, it naturally greets you and says, "Hey, what are you here for?" And then you're like, "Uh,

I'm here to check XYZ out." And it's like, "Oh, awesome." And then it's capturing, right? That's like 50, 60 years away. practically everywhere there will be adoption across the winners in the next 5 years to 10 years maybe but universal adoption yeah like 50 60 years like it's not going to happen for a long time maybe even two 2100 honestly we probably won't even see full adoption um but I think practically the the way I heard it on a podcast episode recently when when I was interviewing is these things that people are imagining regarding capability will be available in 3 to 5 years, maybe 10 years for the crazy out there ideas of of uh not talking like physical AI but like more generative and like agentic AI adoption though. Yeah, like 50 years. Like it'll slowly roll out over 50 years because if we're

still using paper forms in this world that you and I live in where you can sign up for free to jotform.com, shameless plug, and shot from the Jot Form AI agents and have forms auto capture via typing. And I tell that to 10 people I know personally and eight of them look at me like, "Oh my god, that's crazy. That's like magic." you know, like, and I'm being serious, like I'm I'm doing it in a funny voice, but it's true. So, that's my thoughts. I don't know. Like, it's going to be available. A lot of it's available now, right? Like some really advanced coder I'm sure now could has built some sort of website experience where you go there and it's like all the questions you need are asked. Then at the end of this prompt the sequence you're in their CRM and also you're

provided with the customized service package that makes sense for you but adoption yeah give it like I don't know 50 to 100 years hopefully that not that much but yeah well I think slowly but surely rolling out but I'm saying full adoption because man like you said paper forms in 2025 is crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I think it's um it's great. It's just so much fun to work on this kind of stuff. Um it's just uh uh you know just like being it's kind of feels like we are in the future like we are living in the future uh creating evolving in these uh you know products for the future and uh I think it's great to see the power of AI and just experience the power of AI and for a very long time when I hear when I heard AI I

would say like okay another you know crack job like someone would come to me they would say like they are doing AI but they you know they couldn't do anything like much but now it's it's a reality it's not some you know small thing it's just a it's a big thing uh big technology revolution just like the you know person like the you know this is the fourth one uh I see in my lifetime the first one was the personal computer uh and uh the adoption was very slow in that case like you know it took many many it took decades for everyone to have computers and after personal computer then internet came and and then the adoption was much faster and then the mobile phones came and then much faster like now every day today like everyone is walking around with a computer in

their hands they have internet wherever they and uh they have a personal computer in their hands with the internet uh and they can just do whatever they want and it's just uh and now with AI I think just AI makes this these technologies like just possibilities are like limitless because it's just you don't have to do the work AI is kind of doing all these uh work for you and that just creates so much possibilities and we actually seeing We are seeing the real examples. Our customers, our users are seeing the results. Whenever I go to Chip PT, I see the results. It's real. It's not just some uh short-term, you know, uh short-term something um that it's a it's a real uh revolution going on and it's it's good to be a part of that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, I mean I am just

I do feel like we're living in the future as you said and I'm so grateful that we're doing this uh together and that we're working on this product and you brought me as a part of it because I I feel like I'm on the forefront of knowing about this stuff literally just because you asked me to run uh this podcast with you. So I'm just really grateful that we're off to such a hot start on the podcast on the Jot Form AI agents product. And that being said, I mean that's pretty much the list I had for you, man. So, I think I think we're good to go. The only thing I'll I'll say to close it out is if you haven't left the review yet, seriously, uh I don't know what you're doing. Please leave a review on Apple Podcast, like, comment, subscribe, do

everything that people asked to do and check out Jot Form AI Agents. We're very grateful for the growth that we've had and we are very grateful for those of you that listen to the end of this longer episode as this is the probably the longest episode we've done on the channel. Thanks so much for watching. We'll see you in the next. Thank you for watching. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.